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How To Lower Your Ketones

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Presence Of Ketones In Urine – Its Causes And How To Reduce It?

An important healthy process in the body is the metabolizing of carbohydrates, proteins and fats. This metabolizing or burning of these three elements is critical in order for the body to generate energy. This process in turn helps with the enzymatic and metabolic processes found and needed by each cell in the body. In regards to the fuel source for metabolic action, carbohydrates are first burned as a fuel source and followed by fats and then proteins. Continue reading >>

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  1. Ken S

    Ketones, Insulin, And Glucose

    This topic keeps coming up here so I wanted to start a thread which just addresses the issue of ketones. I still have some questions which I will address here.
    I've read that ketones in the presence of high blood sugar can indicate that not enough insulin is being produced. This makes sense in fact since if there isn't enough insulin to drive glucose then you will rely on fat at least somewhat for energy.
    Then, when insulin is very low, and blood sugar goes very high as a result, and ketones also go very high, you can develop diabetic ketoacidosis.
    People say though that ketones with high blood sugar isn't harmful, it's only when the blood sugar gets way high that this is a problem. I've always wondered a bit about that though. If this condition in its extreme form can produce extreme, life threatening results, couldn't it be possible that a lesser amount of ketones, say medium, along with a more modest blood sugar, say 200-250, could be something that we don't want, and may even harm us to some extent?
    What I'm thinking here is that lower insulin output causing ketones may be a different deal, at least a little different, than the kind you get simply from low carb high fat. There are some big ketone fans on here but their blood sugar is normal, mine sure isn't though and while it is going down and my concern with this has been less and less as that has happened, my ketones have pretty much consistently been in the medium range and my diet hasn't been that low carb, averaging somewhere from 80 to 100 depending on what I was eating at the time.
    I have seen what I eat change this though, for instance when I would add protein I'd go down to small. Now that I've added more carbs and am now well over 100 I'm seeing it go down from trace to below small.
    So some of this is due to nutrition, but I still think that some of it may also be due to low insulin. I've taken things which increase insulin and I've also seen that put my ketones down. This makes sense as well as more glucose in the cells means less need for ketosis. My blood sugar is always high so there's always plenty of work for any extra insulin to do.
    The one thing that I have not seen is ketosis bringing down my blood sugar. I know Salim has said this is supposed to happen but it does not work for me. Now he'd say that maybe I'm not in ketosis, and need to test my blood, but I really wonder about that.
    While urinary ketones may not be the most reliable tool to accurately measure ketones, I believe this is similar to saying that urine strips aren't as accurate for glucose. So you can see a lot of glucose in your urine and that may not tell you exactly how much you have but it does tell you that you have a good amount.
    So if you test consistently at medium ketones in your urine that would to me seem to suggest that you have a good amount. Certainly enough to say that you are in ketosis to some degree anyway, even though we may not know exactly what that degree is.
    Hospitals even use strips for this even in cases where they take blood as well, as a means of having an idea of whether someone is spilling ketones or not. So it can't just be a useless tool where we can't say very much about.
    I've had instances, when my blood sugar was higher, where I was considerably darker than medium, not all the way to high, and this actually worried me at the time. Some people advise you to call your doctor immediately if you see a level like this, and while I feel that's out of an abundance of caution, and my levels were 16-18 at the time and therefore well below the normal threshold for DKA, and I didn't have any of the symptoms of DKA either, what I did have was a lot of ketones.
    So given that I can have at least a reasonable idea of being in ketosis with all this, or not depending on what you believe, what was clear to me over time was that when I brought my ketones down, my blood sugar also tended to go down. This may indeed be caused by greater insulin secretions driving down both.
    My blood sugar lately, just to let you know, on lower carbs ranges from 10 to 12.5, and on a few more carbs is now in the range of 8 to 10.5, so pretty much 2 points lower, which is a lot (36 mg/dl).
    In any case, the difference between you and I Salim is that I need to get my blood sugar down and you do not. I have experimented with various levels of carbs from none to the over 100 that I get now. More brings my BG down, less puts it up. So that's why I say that your model of ketosis, while that works for you, may not work for everyone, and does not seem to for me.
    This is not even a matter of measurement, if you eat very low carbs and that doesn't help and in fact hurts, then you can't argue with that. I had high hopes for the low carb approach but ended up being disappointed for whatever reason. I'm still eating a fairly low carb diet and still have ketones but much less and I am doing better now.
    So of course there are still a lot of things that I don't understand about all of this and it's hard to get good info about ketosis and high blood sugar, as all the material seems to deal with DKA. There's also lots of info about ketosis but it doesn't take into account high blood sugar and hypoinsulinism. There also does not seem to be a lot of type 2's that even test for ketones even with strips, and those who do don't tend to know a lot about this. So this seems like something good to talk some more about

  2. AnnC

    Ken, I find your post very confusing because you have not defined what you mean by 'ketones'. Can you please let us know which particular ketones you are talking about in this thread?
    Thanks.

  3. smorgan

    The two conditions are not "somewhat" different or gradients on a scale. They are COMPLETELY different and are more like opposites. This has been discussed many times on this and other forums. You might try a search rather than everyone repeating everything.
    The key is not "low" insulin but grossly insufficient insulin. In other words with BG over 300, more glucose still coming in from diet and little or no insulin it is clearly insufficient. However with normal to low blood sugar (the norm on any diet which produces ketones) and the same low insulin or even lower, there is no insufficiency.
    There are other differences. It should be easy to find them in older threads or even by Googling for example [ketosis vs ketoacidosis] and the like.
    As I said elsewhere, if you want to test this on yourself, pick up a blood ketone meter. It's the only way to know for sure.

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